If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Thanks! Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. Never had a problem. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. Price Received. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. Effort. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. Been there, done that. So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. Some people even find it fun. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257]. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Wire gauges are coded by their size. Faq No: 1029 The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. The thing that eats current is a lot of light bulbs on the layout. Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. Effort. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. It does not work with O27. Then power every other one with one of your smaller transformers. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. This drawing illustrates all of the key functionality of a Lionel KW transformer. While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). The car on the left is scale, and the one on the right is the classic, underscale size. In some cases. I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. . Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. My question is this in order that this doesn't happen again what type of transformer would you recommend? To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. This thing has more power then I will ever need. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. You must be signed in to continue. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. RemembertheVeterans. Transformer sizing for new systems The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Besides the train and track, accessories provide a lot of fun and animation to any setup. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. White and black are common selections. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. My current layout uses about 28 sections of track (Lionel o-27). It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. Its a good transformer. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. I have had the same problem. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. However, there are times when the solid wire has advantages, particularly when soldering in small locations. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. The higher powered units would not meet todays safety standards as issued by Underwriters Laboratories. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. no it isn't. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. Price Received. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. This means that you will have about.5 volt drop if your train draws 5 amperes. What size Lionel transformer do I need? UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. If youre buying a transformer, youll be able to easily find one that a professional refurbished and upgraded with the links I provide below. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. Adding more freight or passenger cars [also known as rolling stock] to your set is another way to quickly expand your railroad. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. $2799. Serious or fatal injuries may result. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. Why Sign In? As the train goes by, the door to the shed opens and a figure pops out, and once the train has passed the figure re-enters the building and the door shuts. Sign-up for email today! There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. If you like, tell us more about yourself. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. Sell Your Trains Through an Online Auction Service. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. Just not quite as much. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. Because the runs are short and power demands so low, this fine wire poses no safety threat. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. Ill try to find a link to it for you. Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. It is 5" long. Three conductor wire is common for household use. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Our community is FREE to join. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. what size lionel transformer do i need. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. OTTS Founder These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Price Received. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. The first Lionel electric trains were powered by wet-cell batteries, which were, of course, dangerous. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. However, if you begin adding more than 1 or 2 cars, be sure to get some extra track, or your longer train will be chasing its tail very quickly. The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. To participate you must either login or register for an account. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-wattLionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901-2022. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. $7.89 delivery Feb 2 - 6. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Take the hint. And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! And that means theyre affordable. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. Subscribers, sign in to access exclusive content. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). To participate you must either login or register for an account. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful!

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